SB 1440 Discussion Board

This discussion board is for questions related to the SB1440 legislation.  We welcome questions on this important topic. If your question is particular to counseling issues, please click on the discussion board for the AA-T/AS-T discussion.  If you're not sure which board to post to, please review the previous questions.  Thank you. 

Comments

TMC for Biology

Is there a timeline for the TMC Biology to be in vetting process and finalized anytime soon?  
How is the IGETC STEM influencing the process?
Thanks!!

Biology TMC

The DRAFT Biology TMC has been developed with the presumption of the use of IGETC for STEM. We're expecting to post the TMC soon. The last sticking point in discussions about the TMC related to the final course to be included - whether or not it would be a mandated course or a course that needed to be included if the CCC has the room in its units to do so. While it appears that a logical compromise has been achieved, we are awaiting the final OK from the FDRG - as well as related descriptors for vetting.

Math AS-T Degree change

The TMC for our Math degee was approved with a Math 228 or Math H228 (Honors) option. We have not offered the H228 in awhile and when we do, the enrollment is low. We would like to make the H228 course inactive.  How would this effect the degree? Do we have to notify the Chancellor's office? resubmit the degree for approval?  

Non-substantive program change

That sounds like a non-substantive change. If you see the PCAH, the directions suggest that you would submit the CCC-511. Here's an excerpt:CCC-511: Credit Program Nonsubstantial ChangeThis proposal is completed online via the CCC Curriculum Inventory. All attachments, including a scanned copy of the original signature page, will need to be attached to the proposal. The CCC Curriculum Inventory is accessible online at http://curriculum.cccco.edu to authorized users.Refer to the CCC Curriculum Inventory User Guide for specific instructions on using the CCC Curriculum Inventory. Help icons are available on the electronic form to provide instructions for each field of the form.When to use this form: The CCC-511 Credit Program Nonsubstantial Change form is used to submit minor changes to include a change in program status and to delete programs from the CCC Curriculum Inventory that are no longer offered at the college.If the Chancellor’s Office believes the requested change must have been submitted as a new or substantially modified program, it may request additional information from the college before making an approval decision.

AS-T Degree

Are there plans to develop a TMC for Biology? Our campus would like to offer an AS-T Degree.

Biology TMC

Yes. Efforts have been underway for quite some time.

Pressure to Eliminate Non-TMC-Aligned Courses and Degrees

At our college, the VP of Instruction has begun putting significant pressure on the Curriculum Committee to only approve courses that are part of TMC-aligned degrees.  She is also started a push to eliminate non-TMC-aligned degrees.  She has indicated this as being part of coversations taking place at CCC CIO meetings.   Is this the ultimate purpose of TMC's? 
If not, can you guide me to resources that state that it isn't?
 

Non-TMC-Aligned

That is not the intent and you will not find resources that state that explicitly as that is asking for statements regarding what something is NOT intended to do - sort of backwards.

AS-T/AA-T in a major different from CSU major

If a student gets an AS-T in Math, will that increase his/her chances of getting accepted as a Computer Science major at SJSU?

Math for CS

IF the SJSU CS department has determined that the math TMC is "similar", that the math TMC maps onto the SJSU CS major, sure. Note that we now have a CS TMC.

Math in Elementary Education Degree

Is there any flexibility in the Math for Teachers class in the Elementary Education degree? We have such a course but hasn't been offered much in recent years. The science classes for teachers all have alternative options among the more standard GE offerings, but it doesn't look like we're being given an option for the math. Since the math for teachers class is one that we don't offer very often, it's likely to become the main limiting factor in getting students through this degree.

Options

If options are not indicated, they are not permitted. This is the sort of feedback that was needed during the vetting process to shape the final TMC.

CSU enrollments and TMC degree completion

The system chancellor for CSU states that eight of the campuses will allow spring 2013 enrollments for transfer students who have completed TMC degrees.  The rest are closing spring 2013 enrollment.  Does anyone know what the CSU plans for fall 2013?  Is there a move on their part to limit fall 2013 and spring 2014 transfer enrollments to students who have completed the TMC degrees?

Only AA-T degrees?

There has been no discussion about placing such a limit on fall enrollments.

Other CC Courses with C-ID Approvals

I have a C-ID course proposal that was denied asking for more information.  Is there a C-ID list available so that I can see what other community colleges have had their courses approved for specific C-ID numbers?  If yes, where please.
Example:  I want to know what community colleges have been approved for C-ID SOCI-150, Introduction to Race and Ethnicity, so that I can check on ASSIST to see if there are some current course outlines of record (CORs) for my faculty to use in upgrading our course to get approved for the C-ID number.
 
Thanks!
Carol E. Lee

That's a C-ID question...

Please contact C-ID with this question.

Multiple TMC-aligned degrees?

My apologies if this is already addressed somewhere and I've missed it. I *think* I know the answer but want to verify before guiding my curriculum committee. Here's the issue:
I have the "CSU Similar Degree Report" from http://www.sb1440.org/Counseling.aspx
Looking at the TMC for English... Let's say we have lots of students who transfer to San Jose State University for their B.A. in English-Creative Writing, and we also have lots of students who transfer to CSU-SF for their B.A. in English - Literature Concentration.
I totally understand that in this example both CSU-SF and SJSU have indicated that an AA-T aligned with the English TMC would be appropriate preparation for either of these concentrations (CW or Literature). However, there's quite a bit of latitude for CCCs in the courses they include when creating their English AA-T. Would it be allowable/advisable to create TWO different AA-T degrees, one with the courses chosen more to prepare a student to study literature and the other to study creative writing? Alternatively, we could create one AA-T with more total course choices and rely on the counselors to guide students to select the most appropriate courses from amongst all the options?
Thanks for any insight you can offer!
Carolyn

Degrees...

If the CSU has indicated that a given TMC will "work" (i.e. it is similar for a given major with a given emphasis, as you have indicated), the student will be able to finish in 60 at the CSU regardless of your TMC-aligned degree choices. But of course you want to direct students to take the courses that are most aligned with their preferred CSU destination. With that in mind, it makes sense to include the options for both the CSUs you feed to in your degree and to rely on counselors to guide students to the best course selections. The whole idea here is to have one degree that serves all CSUs well - having two degrees adds complexity that really is not warranted. I have a feeling you were leaning that way. ;-)

C-ID course descriptors and prerequisites

Do CCCs have to follow the C-ID course descriptors regarding prerequisites if they are developing courses and TMCs in a discipline? We are developing a TMC in Political Science at Fresno City College and would like to establish an English writing prequisite for the American government course, but the draft C-ID  PolSci 110 has no English writing prerequisite. If colleges establish prerequisites for a course and the C-ID descriptor has none, is this considered a local graduation requirement?

C-ID, Prereqs, and TMCs

Just a reminder of terminology - you are not developing a TMC. You are developing a TMC-aligned degree. A TMC is something that is developed at the state level and then used locally as a guide of sorts.
If a C-ID descriptor indicates a prerequisite, courses approved as matching that descriptor must have that prerequisite.
A course prerequisite is not a graduation requirement. Depending on what the prerequisite was, you might have to include it in the unit count for the degree. And one would expect that an English prerequisite would likely be something that would need to be completed in order to graduate, right?
 

TMC requirements can't be met with template for Business at CSU

CSU-SJ requires the following for Lower Division which I have mapped to the TMC for Business
(All TMC required core 15-17 units)Bus 20 (3) - ACCT110(3-4)
Bus 21 (3) - ACCT120(3-4)
Econ 1A (3) - Microeconomics
Econ 1B (3) - Macroeconomics
Bus 80 (3) - Business Law
Total 15 - 17 units OK on this part of the TMC
LIST A (Select 1 3-4 Units)
BUS90(3) - Stat110(3-4)
Total 3 Units OK on this part of the TMC
List B (Select 2 5-8 Units)
1 from A
MATH71(3)  - Business Calculus(3)
BUS10(3)  - BUS110(3)
However, CSU-SJ ALSO requires
BUS91L(1) - maps to BUS140(3)
9 units exceeds the required 8
My question is this:
1.  If I design a TMC for Business from my college, I will require more than the 5-8 in the template for Part B.  Please advise how I can proceed.  I can't understand how I can get away with creating a TMC that exceeds the number in this category, however, all of the courses listed are required.
 

TMCs and TMC-aligned degrees

The TMCs are intended to facilitate the development of degrees that will meet the requirements of as many CSUs as possible. There is no guarantee or expectation that the TMC will meet the needs of any one CSU. You don't "design a TMC" - you have the option of developing a TMC-aligned degree. As you have explained here, CSU-SJ requires one more course than is permitted by the TMC - and this is a TMC that is already pushing up against the unit limit. It is likely that inclusion of that additional course can't be permitted as the 60-unit limit would be exceeded. In other words, as you have explained it there is no way to develop a 1440-consistent degree for CSU-SJ due to the size of this CSU's lower division preparation. If all the units can "fit", you could consider developing a non-aligned degree that is, effectively, TMC-aligned + 1 course. The purpose of this discussion is not to provide a personal analysis of issues - so I am answering based solely on the information you have provided.

New Form - Student Statement of Intent to Earn AA-T/AS-T Form

When to submit Student Statement of Intent to Earn AA-T/AS-T Degree Form? I only recently stumbled onto this new required form at: calstate.edu/transfer/degrees/StatementofIntentToEarnAssociateDegree.shtml. This new form states “California Community College AA-T/AS-T degree applicants for the Spring 2012 or Fall 2012 applying to a CSU Similar degree program must submit to the CSU campus a ‘Student Statement of Intent to Earn AA-T/AS-T Degree Form’ to receive the priority consideration for admission.” Although this seems to be a mandatory form for a CSU applicant to receive priority admission, I could not find any information about it on the CSUMentor website. When must this form be submitted, before or after the CSU application due date November 30? Both the community college transfer center and the local CSU admission department were unable to answer this essential question. A swift response to my question would be very much appreciated, since the CSU application due date is only 10 days away. Thank you.

Question for CSU

Sorry, this is a question for the CSU Chancellor's Office, not for the Academic Senate for California Community Colleges. Even if we were in possession of this information, it is CSU's responsibility to answer such questions and it would not be appropriate for us to provide this information. We have no authority with respect to this.

CCC Counselor Advising Tool

Has a CCC Counselor SB 1440 advising tool been developed for counselors to use with CCC students?
If so, please send or let me know where I can get this information.
If not, any timeline as to when it will be developed.
Thank you

There is no official advising tool at this time.

There is no official advising document as of yet, but there are unofficial ones that have been circulating. Please consult your Articulation Officer for assistance - he or she should be able to help, or contact someone who can.
When there is a tool available, we will push it out through all available channels.
NOTE - Apologies for the delay in responding. I was not receiving notifications of new posts.

History TMC: 3-semester World History Series?

The List A of the History TMC designates a 2-semester world history series for 6 units or a 2-semester series of western civ classes, however, our college’s world history series of _3_ courses is designed to align with a couple of majors at CSU Chico which require a 3-semester series.  What should we do?
 
Can we simply ask for 6 units chosen from World History I, II, or III (which seems like the simple answer)?  Or must we discard these courses and design a new two-course series of world history?  Thanks.

How do your courses align with C-ID?

As C-ID descriptors are being used to "define" courses for the TMCs, you should check to see how your courses compare. If your 3 courses are comparable to the two courses described by C-ID, then they could be used - provided you do not exceed the 1440 prescribed unit limit. From the C-ID stance, this would make sense - but you may also want to consult with the Chancellor's Office as they will be the ones approving your degree.
NOTE - Apologies for the delay in responding. I was not receiving notifications of new posts.

AA/AS-T degrees approved with courses without C-ID designation.

If an AA/AS-T is approved with coursework that has no C-ID designation and those same courses are submitted for C-ID designation after the degree was approved; how does this affect the approved degree if any?  Does the degree need to be re-submitted for approval? Is there a process to only submit the courses? 

Submit courses to C-ID.

There most certainly is a process of submitting a course to C-ID. Your Articulation Officer (AO) handles this task. You should be contacting your AO to submit your course outlines for a C-ID designation as soon as descriptors exist for the courses in your degree.
NOTE - Apologies for the delay in responding. I was not receiving notifications of new posts.

Similar Majors at CSU's for new approved TMC's?

Twelve TMC's have been approved since the beginning of May, yet we still only have CSU confirmation of similar majors on the original 4? (Communciation, Sociology, Psychology and Math).  Is there information as to when can we expect to have the CSU's report on whether they deem the TMC's "similar" to their majors for these new 12?

Hopefully soon...

We've been told that the CSUs that did not declare a given TMC "similar" when asked the first time are being asked to reconsider how they might make that TMC work. In other words, the process is taking longer as there is an attempt to get more similar determinations. Preliminary reports suggest that some of the TMCs being reviewed are doing really well - and others not quite so well. The need for these determinations has been stressed by the CCC at every opportunity. We'll start pushing out some sort of update after each 1440 Oversite Committee meeting so the field will know what is happening. I wish we had a way to speed things up. In other words, stay tuned...
NOTE - Apologies for the delay in responding. I was not receiving notifications of new posts.

American Institutions Requirement

Can you clarify if the American Institutions requirement for community colleges is not required in TMC degrees?  I thought it remained a degree requirement, as well as English 1A and math.  Only local degree requirements not mandated in Title 5, such as P.E., were prohibited.  As usual, any information or enlightenment is greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks.

CSU's Am History and Institutions - A CSU Graduation Requirement

The Am Institutions requirement has never been a CCC degree requirement. It is a CSU graduation requirement. Nothing has changed with respect to this requirement. 1440 degrees consist of transfer GE + major. While courses that fill this requirement can be taken as part of GE, and the community colleges have always encouraged students to do so, this not a general education requirement or a component of transfer admission.

Sociology TMC

After the regional meeting on Saturday, I realized that I am having trouble interpreting "List B" to our Sociology Department.  We have many of those courses on our campus, and they transfer to our local CSU.  However, the "tag" at the end of that list refers refers to courses articulated as lower division major preparation at a CSU.  Does this mean that List B may only contain courses we have articulated as lower division prep for the major?  Thanks.

Sociology TMC

If any list on a TMC contains both specific courses (identified by a descriptor) AND opens options up to courses with specified articulation, a CCC can include courses that are comparable to the specific identified courses AND courses that have the indicated articulation. Where there is a specific course identified by a C-ID descriptor, the college is "self-certifying" that its course is comparable. For courses that are included based on the specific articulation, the existence of that articulation must be demonstrated using ASSIST.

Business TMC

Can you explain how the "flexibility" of this descriptor will work?   For example, will a CC select only one option and then their students will be "directed" to CSUs that follow that model, or will a CC be able to offer more than one option thus giving their students more flexibility as to the different CSU programs.

Business TMC

This sounds like a question about a TMC, as opposed to descriptor. A CCC that wishes to develop a TMC-aligned degree creates that degree within the defined parameters of the TMC. Within a locally developed TMC-aligned degree, there may be great flexibility or it may be limited. The local discussion regarding what the degree should look like and where students are likely to go will drive the final determination.
It is not clear what "option" you are referencing. If the TMC indicates that a student should take one of X, Y, or Z, the CCC can give students any of the following options:1. one of X, Y, or Z.2. X3. Y4. Z.5. X or Y.6. X or Z.7. Y or Z.
Choices made should be based on the CCC's offerings and existing articulation. In other words, there could be varied "options" within a CCC degree.

Transfer Documentation

Hi,
In the "Credit Program Instructions" document, pg 19 it mentions:

"When a TMC is finalized, a template will be available, similar to the example on page 21, which will be uploaded as an attachment to the AA-T or AS-T degree proposal in the Curriculum Inventory. The community college will complete the columns in the right half of the table to indicate which courses in the TMC have been adopted."
I have not found these online. Are they available for Psychology and Sociology?
Thank you
 

www.cccco.edu/1440

Please see www.cccco.edu/1440. The templates are available there.

COMM STUDIES: Transfer designation for small group (COMM 140)

Small group communication (COMM 140) is listed as satisfying area A1 on some documents, and area A3 on others.  Both documents are referenced on this site (two different links on the same page, actually!).  Any idea what the final decision was--does it fulfill A1 or A3?
COMM TMC Final Jan 25 2011R.pdf

GE Area

As with any GE call for a given course, this is dependent upon the local determination made by the CCC faculty and the CSU's acceptance of the course for one or the other - or both GE areas. The TMC indicates possible GE options - it does not dictate anything. The TMC indicates "Possible CSU GE" options - it does not dictate or determine GE applicability.
Thanks for posting this question here - it is likely to come up again in other contexts.
 

Timeline for Philosophy TMC?

Any news about a timeline for developing the Philosophy TMC?

Timelines...

Not at the present time - right now we are focusing on getting the disciplines that are in process through the process. We're aware of the need to work on the existing descriptors for philosophy and hope to address those in the near future. If you have not signed up for the list-serv for philosophy, please be sure to do so - that way you will not miss any announcements.

Comm Studies - FORENSICS units for AA-T

My colleagues and I are putting together an AA-T in Communication Studies.
One of the courses included in the TMC is Forensics.  We’ve been requested by our campus administration to make it non-variable units.  It used to be offered as a variable of up to 4 units of credit.  At present, it has been set at 4, due to our administration’s request to make it non-variable.
TMC in Comm Studies permits 3 units for Forensics. 
The question is: Will our degree be rejected if we have 4 units for Forensics? Or must we hold it at 3 units per the TMC? 

Forensics

Technically, only 3/4 units would "count" for the degree - per the TMC. As long as you were not using that 4th unit to count toward the 18 unit minimum for the major, it should not be a problem - but this is really a Chancellor's Office call. The cap was imposed due to the recognition that it is commonly a variable unit course and should not be "over-used" within the degree - not to make a distinction between a 3 and a 4 unit course. I'll ask some others to weigh in so that the answer is more definite. This is a tentative response at the present time.

All of the above has been confirmed.

I ran this issue by the Chancellor's Office and both a CCC and a CSU faculty member on the FDRG. As long as that additional unit does not somehow push you over 60 and it is not replacing any other units in the 18 required, you're good.

AA-T or AS-T

I want to be consistant with the AA-T and AS-T designations.
I noticed that last Administrative Justice/Criminal Justice TMC was an AS-T. I thought at one of the SB-1440 webinars that AS-T designations were going to be for STEM majors and AA-T designations would be for everything else. Is the AS-T designation for only STEM majors? Thanks. 
 

The AS-T and AA-T

The AS-T and AA-T designations were adopted by the CCCCO from the ASCCC Resolution:

04.04
2010
Spring
Title 5 Changes Defining a Transfer Associate Degree

In that resolution all STEM and CTE programs will be AS and all the others will be AA.  It was never enacted into Title 5, but the CCCCO has adopted it for the Transfer Degree designations.
 

AS and AA

The reason the AA and AS language was not adopted was not due to a lack of interest in doing so, but due to the Department of Finance. It was blocked as an unfunded mandate by the DoF.